releases: https://www.heitkamp.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ContentRecord_id=7F7DCA12-B483-46E8-A487-33A28B1B2B01
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| https://www.heitkamp.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ContentRecord_id=7F7DCA12-B483-46E8-A487-33A28B1B2B01 | New Heitkamp Podcast: On Tax Reform, Bipartisanship Would Make Better Policy | 2017-12-21 | 2017 | 2017-12 | Democrat | House | ND | Heidi Heitkamp | H001069 | www.heitkamp.senate.gov | legacy | WASHINGTON, D.C. U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp today released the latest episode of her podcast, The Hotdish, interviewing former U.S. Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND) and Phillip Swagel, a Republican economist and former economic advisor in the Bush administration. North Dakotans want to know that people from different political parties can sit down and have an honest discussion about the best way forward for our economy, said Heitkamp, North Dakotas former tax commissioner. Unfortunately, that didnt happen as the Republican tax bill was crafted even though I, and many others, tried to be at the table. As a result, it created policies that wont support North Dakotas workers, families, and retirees in the long-term. But from my conversations with a bipartisan pair of guests in this edition of The Hotdish, its clear that theres plenty of common ground to be found we just have to be willing to talk to each other, just as I try to do every day in the Senate. The Hotdish is available on iTunes and SoundCloud. Click here to subscribe to The Hotdish on iTunes. Like Heitkamp, Conrad is a former North Dakota Tax Commissioner, and in his 26 years in the U.S. Senate he played a vital role in shaping our nations fiscal policies and worked on a bipartisan basis on solutions to deal with our deficits and debt, including as the former chairman of the U.S. Senate Budget Committee. He is now a senior fellow at the Bipartisan Policy Center and co-chair of its Commission on Retirement Security and Personal Savings. Heitkamp and Conrad discussed the nearly $1.5 trillion cost of the tax reform bill and the impact of mounting debt on future generations. Heitkamp recalled a recent conversation with a Vietnam veteran in North Dakota who told her he wanted a tax cut but not if his grandkids were going to have to pay for it. Heres a veteran who put on a uniform and served his country, and he was still thinking about whats really good for his country, and not just good for him, Heitkamp said. And you know, I thought, thats a North Dakota attitude, isnt it? Conrad said, Thats the North Dakota I know. I used to tell my colleagues, if on fiscal matters we let North Dakotans decide for the nation, our country would be in much better shape because North Dakotas people have common sense. They know when somebody tells them a story thats too good to be true, that its too good to be true. And they know that you shouldnt just pile up debt on top of debt that thats a dangerous thing. It may not hit you immediately, but over time when you take on too much debt, it leads to bad outcomes. And the people of North Dakota understand that I think better than almost any people in the country. In her conversation with Republican economist Phillip Swagel, they agreed that adding to the deficit to pay for the tax cut was concerning. The monster I see coming at us is the debt and deficit, Heitkamp said. Swagel responded, Absolutely. This bill is going to add $1.5 trillion over 10 years to the deficit but really, once you take into account the gimmicks here, were talking $2 trillion over 10 years. So its a big impact on the deficit, and its got to be a big risk. Swagel was Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy at the Treasury Department during President George W. Bushs second term, and was previously chief of staff and a senior economist at the White House Council of Economic Advisers, as well as an economist at the International Monetary Fund and the Federal Reserve Board. Hes currently a Professor in International Economic Policy at the University of Maryland School of Public Policy. Heitkamp discussed the cost of the tax reform bill and claims that it will pay for itself, despite every nonpartisan analysis disproving that claim. Heitkamp said, I think it will have an impact on economic growth, but I think it is not telling the truth to say that this is going to pay for itself. Do you agree? Swagel responded, I do agree. As you said, there will be growth. I think 2018 is going to surprise people, that growth is really going to be pretty good, and even into 2019. But not enough to raise the revenue to pay for itself. Theres just no way. Additional excerpts from this edition of The Hotdish are below. Click here to read Senator Heitkamps statement on her vote on the tax reform bill. Heitkamp has long said she wanted to work with Republicans and Democrats on tax reform that supports workers, families, and retirees, while growing the economy and remaining fiscally responsible. InSeptemberandOctober, she held four listening sessions across the state to get feedback from North Dakotans about what they wanted to see in a tax reform bill. Shejoined President Trumpduring his visit to North Dakota on tax reform. She alsomet with him and a bipartisan group of senatorsat the White House in September on the issue. And she joineda dinner with a bipartisan group of senators at the home of Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in October to discuss tax reform. Additional excerpts: Conrad: One thing we know is, when you have high levels of debt and you do tax cuts that are not paid for, over time because you have higher debt that puts upward pressure on interest rates. That means people have to pay more for a mortgage. That means they have to pay more on a college loan. That means they have to pay more on a car loan. Those increases in interest rates hurt long-term economic growth. ............. Heitkamp: The other piece of this that Im very concerned about, Phil, is that it was not a sit down and everybody work through the discussion the way Ronald Reagan did in 86 so that when you get done, everybody owns it Swagel: I agree, thats a key risk here, which is the uncertainty. As you said, on the personal side, the provisions expire, and who knows what will happen what the Congress will look like, who will be in charge. I certainly would have liked everything to be permanent, and to be bipartisan. ............. Heitkamp: We could have done some really excellent work to try to make our system simpler, which this does not do. To make it fairer, which this does not do. And try to make it respond to the global economy better, and I dont think this does it. So it misses it on so many marks, and on top of that, it just misses the mark of fiscal accountability. ............. Conrad: I guess the thing thats so disturbing when youve got this large debt $20 trillion in debt, more than 100 percent the size of our economy and now were going to borrow money, much of it from the Chinese, to give a tax cut that disproportionately goes to the wealthiest among us, it just doesnt make much sense. And the thing thats the most troubling is it could have been paid for. We could have a middle class tax cut, we could reduce the corporate rate to make us more competitive, and we could have paid for it by shutting down some of these offshore tax scams that are so prevalent, that are benefitting people who already have tremendous assets. About The Hotdish: Heitkamp kicked off her podcast in February with an episode on her efforts to combat human trafficking, interviewing anti-human trafficking leader Cindy McCain and North Dakota journalist Kevin Wallevand. Since then, Heitkamps podcast has covered a wide range of topics, including negotiations for the next Farm Bill, the role of moderates in Congress, U.S.-Russia relations, health care, her bipartisan bill that would promote carbon capture, the role of refugees and immigrants in our communities, the threat posed by North Korea, and tackling the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous women. ### | 1 | 2026-03-30T12:14:52Z | 2026-03-30T12:14:52Z |